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	<title>Comments on: More on Video Games</title>
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	<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/</link>
	<description>The library weblog dedicated to resources for keeping current and professional development</description>
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		<title>By: Marc Cohen</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-23907</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-23907</guid>
		<description>As both a competitive gamer and book reader, I was in ultra shock about this interesting article I read today in the LA Times, because I never knew this was going on in local public libraries. I must admit, I used to be lured into libraries as a teenager for borrowing free movies, magazines and music records. Of course, I bit the bait and it worked. Next thing you know, I am reading and checking out books and novels that would of made even my strictest school teacher proud. As long as the kids are under strict adult supervision, and it is under a controlled and orderly program, I think this is all great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As both a competitive gamer and book reader, I was in ultra shock about this interesting article I read today in the LA Times, because I never knew this was going on in local public libraries. I must admit, I used to be lured into libraries as a teenager for borrowing free movies, magazines and music records. Of course, I bit the bait and it worked. Next thing you know, I am reading and checking out books and novels that would of made even my strictest school teacher proud. As long as the kids are under strict adult supervision, and it is under a controlled and orderly program, I think this is all great.</p>
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		<title>By: Soldatlouis</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-23848</link>
		<dc:creator>Soldatlouis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-23848</guid>
		<description>Hi all ! 

I wanted to inform you that GamePolitics ran a story from LA Times&#039; article, where this post is quoted.

Now I&#039;ll repeat what I&#039;ve said on GP : though I disagree with Steven Cohen&#039;s opinions on video games, he has the right to have such opinions, and anyway, that&#039;s not the problem. The problem is : do we need video games to attract children in libraries and make them read books ? And on that point, I understand (if not agree with) Mr. Cohen.

I love playing video games AND reading books (though not at the same time), among other things. But if I want to play games, I go to a games store, or a cybercafÃ©. To me, libraries are essentially places where you go read a book. This being said, here in France, &quot;bibliothÃ¨ques&quot; (&quot;libraries&quot;) were replaced by &quot;mÃ©diathÃ¨ques&quot; (&quot;mediaries&quot;) long ago, with the introduction of VHS, then DVDs and CDs. I still don&#039;t know if it&#039;s a good thing or a bad thing. But I don&#039;t like when so many &quot;real&quot; libraries close one after another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all ! </p>
<p>I wanted to inform you that GamePolitics ran a story from LA Times&#8217; article, where this post is quoted.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ll repeat what I&#8217;ve said on GP : though I disagree with Steven Cohen&#8217;s opinions on video games, he has the right to have such opinions, and anyway, that&#8217;s not the problem. The problem is : do we need video games to attract children in libraries and make them read books ? And on that point, I understand (if not agree with) Mr. Cohen.</p>
<p>I love playing video games AND reading books (though not at the same time), among other things. But if I want to play games, I go to a games store, or a cybercafÃ©. To me, libraries are essentially places where you go read a book. This being said, here in France, &#8220;bibliothÃ¨ques&#8221; (&#8220;libraries&#8221;) were replaced by &#8220;mÃ©diathÃ¨ques&#8221; (&#8220;mediaries&#8221;) long ago, with the introduction of VHS, then DVDs and CDs. I still don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s a good thing or a bad thing. But I don&#8217;t like when so many &#8220;real&#8221; libraries close one after another.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Deschamps</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17995</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Deschamps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17995</guid>
		<description>As a public librarian, I can say that, even without gaming programs, teens are gaming in the library.  

That said, while I hear alot of skepticism where I am about Web 2.0 stuff up-to and including RSS, I hear very few complaints about the possibility of gaming programs.

Gaming programs can be a pro-active response to the shocking (to any librarian working in the 80s or 90s) fact that libraries are popular to teens all of the sudden.   In a non-gaming programming world, the teens do their social interaction and gaming in amongst the resume writers and hard-core researchers, perhaps annoying the heck out of them.

In a gaming programming world, our front-line people can respond to alot of big concerns in the community:  youth justice, displaced teens, internet safety, cyberbullying, education [yes, education], and social cohesion.   Gaming programs can spark partnerships, and act as a buffer for these larger community problems.

And, just ask the parents of teens in our programs.  They are happy to see finally that there are actually services for their teens, because otherwise they&#039;d be getting kicked out of the local Walmart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a public librarian, I can say that, even without gaming programs, teens are gaming in the library.  </p>
<p>That said, while I hear alot of skepticism where I am about Web 2.0 stuff up-to and including RSS, I hear very few complaints about the possibility of gaming programs.</p>
<p>Gaming programs can be a pro-active response to the shocking (to any librarian working in the 80s or 90s) fact that libraries are popular to teens all of the sudden.   In a non-gaming programming world, the teens do their social interaction and gaming in amongst the resume writers and hard-core researchers, perhaps annoying the heck out of them.</p>
<p>In a gaming programming world, our front-line people can respond to alot of big concerns in the community:  youth justice, displaced teens, internet safety, cyberbullying, education [yes, education], and social cohesion.   Gaming programs can spark partnerships, and act as a buffer for these larger community problems.</p>
<p>And, just ask the parents of teens in our programs.  They are happy to see finally that there are actually services for their teens, because otherwise they&#8217;d be getting kicked out of the local Walmart.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Chamberlain&#8217;s library weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Games in libraries</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17968</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Chamberlain&#8217;s library weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Games in libraries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17968</guid>
		<description>[...] Gibson. Jenny Levine makes some good points in the comments to Steven&#8217;s post. Steven posts a follow-up. (Parenthetically, it&#8217;s sad that both Steven and Jenny have to stress that their disagreement [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gibson. Jenny Levine makes some good points in the comments to Steven&#8217;s post. Steven posts a follow-up. (Parenthetically, it&#8217;s sad that both Steven and Jenny have to stress that their disagreement [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kendra</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17911</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17911</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s wrong with candy in the library? It works.

I guess I&#039;m skeptical about video games in the library, but I also recognize that it&#039;s a form of media that won&#039;t go away any time soon. 

Mark, I agree with your last comment about people and their agendas. What&#039;s a young, wannabe hipster librarian supposed to do if they want to defend the old ways of civilization? Play Civ IV at the library?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s wrong with candy in the library? It works.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m skeptical about video games in the library, but I also recognize that it&#8217;s a form of media that won&#8217;t go away any time soon. </p>
<p>Mark, I agree with your last comment about people and their agendas. What&#8217;s a young, wannabe hipster librarian supposed to do if they want to defend the old ways of civilization? Play Civ IV at the library?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark K.</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17906</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17906</guid>
		<description>I think one thing that is also being missed in this discussion so far is the storyline aspect of many videogames.  Personally, I think any library with a collection of Choose Your Own Adventure books has already done the collection development groundwork for a number of games.

(As for childishness, I think the charge can cut both ways. Wannabe Hipsters and Beleaguered Defenders Of Civilization can both be acting out personal agendas that have little to do with reasoned library service...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one thing that is also being missed in this discussion so far is the storyline aspect of many videogames.  Personally, I think any library with a collection of Choose Your Own Adventure books has already done the collection development groundwork for a number of games.</p>
<p>(As for childishness, I think the charge can cut both ways. Wannabe Hipsters and Beleaguered Defenders Of Civilization can both be acting out personal agendas that have little to do with reasoned library service&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17901</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17901</guid>
		<description>Steven, Re circulation: This may be a &quot;both and&quot; situation--in many (most?) public libraries, books still represent the majority of circulations, but nonbook collections circulate at a higher rate.

Say a library has 100,000 books and 20,000 CDs, DVDs, videogames, art prints. Say the library has 300,000 book circulations and 150,000 non-book circulations. In that case, books represent the dominant service (2/3 of circulation), but the &quot;average book&quot; circulates three times a year, while the &quot;average nonbook&quot; circulates 7.5 times a year.

That&#039;s wildly oversimplified, but the pattern&#039;s probably right--multimedia *items* circulate more often, but the book collections are much broader and circulate more overall.

And, as one who&#039;s even older school than you (I think) and a non-gamer (and who, for some reason, almost never uses our library&#039;s nonprint collections), I&#039;m satisfied that some public libraries are using games in ways that, I believe, suit their missions and enhance their overall service portfolio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven, Re circulation: This may be a &#8220;both and&#8221; situation&#8211;in many (most?) public libraries, books still represent the majority of circulations, but nonbook collections circulate at a higher rate.</p>
<p>Say a library has 100,000 books and 20,000 CDs, DVDs, videogames, art prints. Say the library has 300,000 book circulations and 150,000 non-book circulations. In that case, books represent the dominant service (2/3 of circulation), but the &#8220;average book&#8221; circulates three times a year, while the &#8220;average nonbook&#8221; circulates 7.5 times a year.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s wildly oversimplified, but the pattern&#8217;s probably right&#8211;multimedia *items* circulate more often, but the book collections are much broader and circulate more overall.</p>
<p>And, as one who&#8217;s even older school than you (I think) and a non-gamer (and who, for some reason, almost never uses our library&#8217;s nonprint collections), I&#8217;m satisfied that some public libraries are using games in ways that, I believe, suit their missions and enhance their overall service portfolio.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny Levine</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny Levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 05:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17868</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Steven - I wasn&#039;t offended, just defending my position. I guess I&#039;d like more clarification of what &quot;old school&quot; is since that&#039;s a vague term. Is it just books? Is it craft programs? Eli Neiburger makes a great case for why gaming is just as valid a library service as storytime in his book &quot;Gamers...in the Library?!&quot;

I&#039;m also unclear on why this is only &quot;cool&quot; and why it&#039;s candy. As I asked on &quot;Library Attack,&quot; is chess okay? Pokemon (which is *all* about reading? Scrabble? Is it all games or just videogames? I think we can have a friendly debate about these things, and I&#039;d really be interested to hear your opinions on this, as you know I respect you, too.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Steven &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t offended, just defending my position. I guess I&#8217;d like more clarification of what &#8220;old school&#8221; is since that&#8217;s a vague term. Is it just books? Is it craft programs? Eli Neiburger makes a great case for why gaming is just as valid a library service as storytime in his book &#8220;Gamers&#8230;in the Library?!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also unclear on why this is only &#8220;cool&#8221; and why it&#8217;s candy. As I asked on &#8220;Library Attack,&#8221; is chess okay? Pokemon (which is *all* about reading? Scrabble? Is it all games or just videogames? I think we can have a friendly debate about these things, and I&#8217;d really be interested to hear your opinions on this, as you know I respect you, too.  <img src='http://www.librarystuff.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: GeekChic</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17863</link>
		<dc:creator>GeekChic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17863</guid>
		<description>Besides, doing &quot;what the community wants&quot; is too simplistic. Who is &quot;the community&quot;? How do you know what &quot;they&quot; want? 

If you just go by the loudest voices you might not stock Harry Potter or gay and lesbian literature in some places (like my previous place of work). If you just go by circulation numbers you will miss things that are seen as essential but are rarely checked out (car manuals at my current place of work).

I understand the impetus that is driving some libraries to try gaming. However, I also get what Steven is saying about possibly over-extended ourselves in terms of collections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides, doing &#8220;what the community wants&#8221; is too simplistic. Who is &#8220;the community&#8221;? How do you know what &#8220;they&#8221; want? </p>
<p>If you just go by the loudest voices you might not stock Harry Potter or gay and lesbian literature in some places (like my previous place of work). If you just go by circulation numbers you will miss things that are seen as essential but are rarely checked out (car manuals at my current place of work).</p>
<p>I understand the impetus that is driving some libraries to try gaming. However, I also get what Steven is saying about possibly over-extended ourselves in terms of collections.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/comment-page-1/#comment-17861</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarystuff.net/2008/01/22/more-on-video-games/#comment-17861</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Jack.  What you said makes sense.  In my community, I think books are circulated more than multimedia.  Maybe that&#039;s not the norm.  I just don&#039;t know.

That said, luring teens into the library with video games just doesn&#039;t sit right with me.  It seems like a &quot;can&#039;t bet &#039;em, join &#039;em&quot; approach, which I abhor and have never followed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Jack.  What you said makes sense.  In my community, I think books are circulated more than multimedia.  Maybe that&#8217;s not the norm.  I just don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>That said, luring teens into the library with video games just doesn&#8217;t sit right with me.  It seems like a &#8220;can&#8217;t bet &#8216;em, join &#8216;em&#8221; approach, which I abhor and have never followed.</p>
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